SPEAKER_00 3:14

Welcome back to Unfiltered with Love. I'm your host, Carrie Love, and I'm so glad you're here. Let's get into today's conversation. We have more ways to stay connected than we've ever had before. We can text someone all day, follow what they're doing online, send pictures, videos, messages, and somehow I think a lot of us are still craving real connection. So today I'm talking with Dr. Elise Vandamia, a licensed professional counselor with more than three decades of experience in mental health, relationships, family dynamics, trauma, anxiety, and emotional well-being. And our conversation went in some really interesting directions. Dating before texting, what ghosting actually does to us, social media and comparison, why face-to-face conversation still matters, and why sometimes simply sitting with other people and really talking can feel almost unusual now. Dr. Elise is going to be joining me as a guest speaker at the retreat Return to Yourself. So toward the end of our conversation, we talk about why creating spaces for genuine connection has become so important. Let's get into it. On today's episode, I have Dr. Elise here, and she's going to be talking about some different things about authentic connection and relationships. So thank you for being on my episode. Sure. And could you give us a little bit of your background and introduce yourself, please?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, so I've been in the therapy field for about 32 years. And during that 32 years, I've worked in residential facilities, dual diagnosis facilities, hospital settings, and in private practice and in a group practice. And I've come across several different relationship dynamics that have sort of honed my skills. And there's a lot of trending things that go through relationships when it comes to love and connection. And some things I think people forget, right? So today I think we can talk a little bit about what those things are that people lose connection with and how they can reconnect.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

So what kind of things are you seeing today that may be different in past generations? Are you noticing a big difference in the way people are connecting with one another?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

To be honest, I think technology has really ruined a lot of things, right? People ask each other out on the phone or texting and they break up with each other and texting, and it's really like not a very personal way to communicate. And you know, back when we were growing up, people had to come to the door and your parents would answer, and they also answered the phone and they'd have to talk to that person. And there was some sort of responsibility that went with asking somebody out and dating. And now it's just so easy for people to do that without anyone else's knowledge that it's kind of like unguided relationships, right? So back in the day when your parents had some involvement, they could say, like, I don't think this person is treating you right, or I don't think this person is a good person for you. And now I think a lot of young people run amok in texting in relationships. And, you know, when they sort of date in privacy and then they have breakups, they like suffer in privacy. And sometimes the benefit of having people know and people be around, and the responsibility of it is like you felt something when someone asked you out, you felt nervous. When someone had to break up with someone, you felt nervous, and it was meaningful, and people connected, and there was a lot better ending process in a relationship, and you didn't have to see them everywhere you looked after the breakup, right? So I feel like people are suffering longer because they can see it on social media anywhere, somebody that moves on and is dating before them, or people get real uh balls, I guess is the word I want to use when they're texting people and they say really mean and nasty things because they don't actually have to see them face to face. And so makeups and breakups happen rapidly, and nobody has time to really address that. And I think when you have to like the whole idea of ghosting somebody, think about this. Before when we didn't have phones, you didn't hear from somebody all day if you were at work, and that was normal and natural, and then you would leave them messages if they weren't home, but now you are in contact so much throughout the day that when someone stops contacting you, you are now losing 20 points of contact throughout the day, and that feels like a bigger loss than before. And really, it's just because it's so immediate and it's so rapid fire that when it ends, it feels like you know, there's this giant hole in your socializing, and then you have to like go off of social media if it's too much for you to watch somebody move on, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

I never thought about that before, about the different connection of the constant.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah, and there's something to be said about having like face-to-face communication. And I'm sure you remember like dating when you were younger, you would get that like butterfly in your stomach feeling, and now you know, it just kind of robs you of that opportunity. And I felt like people were more intentional, right? So if a person was going to your house and wanted to date, they would have to have good intention because who wants to face someone's dad when you don't? So I feel like you kind of like, you know, you like got saved a lot more than kids today get saved. Like there were times when my kids were leaving the house and I would be like, Where are you going? And who's picking you up? And because the their friends would just text them and say, I'm outside. And so you also lose your input on their friends and everything because they're just so disconnected. And they have a young people have, I feel like a misconception of closeness, right? So, you know, a kid, something could happen to a kid in another school, and my daughter would feel like she somehow knew that kid, and it wasn't necessarily that she knew him or hung out with him, but she's seen a lot of their social media and you know, and so they became important. And so I just think that people that don't talk on the phone and don't just communicate in person lose a lot. They lose a lot. True. And and for girls and boys, like what you were saying earlier about reading body language, for girls and boys, you could read someone's language body language if they like you or don't like you. You shouldn't have to text them a thousand times to try to figure it out and ask your friends, like you're missing the middle piece, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Sure, that is true. And what do you think about the way people are today, too? Because I think I don't recall when I was younger dating, having I mean, of course you break up and you're sad and and you go through all that kind of stuff, but I don't recall, like now it seems like everyone is even more traumatized by it or something. And I don't know why that is.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

It's more profound and it lasts longer. You're not wrong in that perception. Because of the because of things like social media, you have to see it over and over and over again. I have a boyfriend in high school that we broke up, but I have never seen him since. And then, you know, and it's it's fine. He's not even on social media, and that's I wasn't for a long time either. So I I but I think it's how it's supposed to be. Like then there's a definite end, and it's not just this how do you heal a wound that you keep touching?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yes, but also too, these things happen. You know, my son was with the girl and had that hard breakup with her, but now he's totally like, I don't trust girls, and it's really shaped his perception. And I don't really recall that being young, where I totally had an experience that I then generalized the whole male population because of one jerk of a dated.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

You've got parents involved, right? You've got people you can talk to that knew what happened and talked you through it. And half of this stuff that goes on with young people, including yourself, things go on forever before they even communicate it. So you are in not even in the know.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

You know, it's hard to help people learn their value when they're young if they're putting themselves in situations and not discussing it because it's embarrassing or they don't want people to know, or they want people's involvement. And that was just not how it was when we were growing up. I mean, I had all brothers and dad, so they were pretty involved in every person that I tried to date, you know, in terms of just checking them out and scooping them up. So I just think I think that's part of it. The other piece is, you know, uh social media in general has made people more depressed and more anxious when you see what everybody else is doing. Nobody's gonna post their down times. And if they do, nobody wants to read it. But if you post your good times and you make it like your life is amazing and you go on all these awesome trips, then everybody else is looking at it going, how can we never go on trips? And so it's like making people more depressed about their current situation. And I've had situations where I had a client who was watching her boyfriend talk about how great they were they were having an affair, and he was posting, Oh, my wife is amazing. So everybody's reading it like, Oh, my wife's amazing, but he's got this girlfriend on the side. So, like, I think it's fake. I think people don't think so too.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

And I even remember that as well, knowing somebody where their husband was doing something and they were posting like these Christmas photos and things of themselves and their perfect family, and they were having major issues.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Somebody that's in an abusive relationship and their boyfriend or husband gives them flowers after every episode of abuse, and then they're just posting the flowers, and you're not seeing all the things that happened before that. So I just think it's a misconception going on. And I think in relationships in general, people get caught up in comparisons and um the craziness, and they forget the simple things in the house, like the less outside influence that is not real, the better, you know?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

And that's why I post what I post on Facebook. I try to be as sometimes out there and bold with what I post and share. And I think people are like, what is she posting now? And the same thing with on here, but I do it because I feel like nobody's talking about these things and everybody's going through these things, but nobody puts it out there and they want to put out this life that's this, you know, as we talk about, this like fake life that everybody thinks is everything's wonderful and everything's great. And and I think that's not reality, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:58

And I think that if you can try to stay focused on what's important and what's actual and factual, you know, you're gonna be better off than going down these tangents of other people. It's just not necessary. Uh you know, I feel like on social media, if it is not profound and it is not funny, it doesn't belong on there. Like those say something funny, say something profound, but don't none of this.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

You'd have to I try to go back and forth. Yeah. I try to put a put some really heavy things on there, and then maybe like I'll lighten it up with something funny because I feel like people were like, oh my goodness, what's she posting now?

SPEAKER_01 14:39

For so imagine too, when you were when you're before social media, when you were upset. I mean, even poor kids when they're grounded, right? When they're grounded, we used to never see anybody till Monday when we went back to school. But these kids see what everybody's doing all weekend if they're grounded, and they're, you know, and they still have their phone or their computer, and it's like, you know, digging it in deeper and making it worse, and and then people see if they're not getting invited to something and everybody else is there. There's just a lot of crap that inundates people's heads. And I think one thing is to turn that stuff down when you're in a relationship so that you're not doing unconscious comparisons. That's the start. And talking to each other, like make agreements to not fight in text, fight in person, you know, make it make it matter, because anybody can say anything in text. And let's be honest, we write paragraphs and men write a sentence or a word. And so I don't even have proof that they read the whole paragraph.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

No, I don't think they do.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

No, my son says that I don't need he says, I don't need your dissertations in text. I'll be like, when I'm upset with something he's doing, or my daughter, you know. And it's it just is a I think for people, you think it's a way to think your thoughts out before you send them. But for the other person who's receiving it, who knows two sentences in if they're even reading that.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yes. But it's hard because and then it's it's too, it's left to interpretation, which is difficult. Yeah, because you can read things totally different.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

If you're upset, you could in in infer that somebody else is also upset, so their words are snotty and snarky when really they might be being very genuine. Yes, to me, that's difficult to decipher.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And also, too, with social media, like so many people have broken up because of social media, because they're looking at the people out there, and I think it gives people a view of themselves that they think that they can just go out and find anybody.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

I think, I mean, honestly, I think it's the devil's playground, right? I I will go down saying that people did not know who they could cheat with until they were introduced to all the people they could cheat with. A lot of times, situations like that are circumstance and opportunity. And I I firmly believe that you are either someone that cheats or you are someone that doesn't. And you might not have realized you were someone that cheats until you had the opportunity. And, you know, for all the people that have been cheated on, I say that is not your fault or your problem. You know, that's the other person, and you can't fix or change that. But social media has kind of sucked in that way because I've seen a lot of people that probably would otherwise be married if they didn't get back in touch with somebody and you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

So it's sort of like two, like you know, men on there or women or whatever liking other people's posts, or well, that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Then it creates all this insecurity that maybe wouldn't be there. Some people are like, so what if I, you know, like her post or like his post, it's just me liking. And there's other people that are like, no, you can't like anybody's post, you know? That's that's a form of cheating. What are you looking at her page for? You know, and it's like I don't know. I really don't know where the line crossed. I just know that if you feel uncomfortable in a relationship and you feel like you have to watch what somebody is doing and who they're liking, then you probably shouldn't be in that relationship. That's true. Because when when it's the right one, you don't feel insecure, you know?

SPEAKER_00 18:27

That's true. Because I've had the past a past person who we will not name beyond nameless on on Facebook looking at, you know, half naked women and all these other things on there. So that's pretty annoying.

unknown 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

So it's just like I don't who needs that. And as we age, I don't need people looking at 20-year-olds. I can't compete with that. So why try? I just think it's dumb. So I think you have to just be careful with the people you choose in your life. And you don't want someone that's I I wouldn't personally want someone that's social media heavy because then you want to I don't want to compete with that.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Mm-hmm. Let's talk about authentic connection today, because I feel like a lot of people do not talk in depth about their feelings or just in general. And I I've had people say to me, You're a very genuine person and you're very real. And I don't really even understand that because I feel like I'm just me. And I think when we talk, when you and I talk, I mean, I find you to be very real. So I don't know, I don't really understand that.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

I think that people have gotten away from right, we're in a world right now of immediate gratification and satisfaction. And if you don't meet someone's immediate gratification and satisfaction, they keep it moving. And there's all these other things out there. There's the world is full of so many bells and whistles that it's hard to find someone that's just chill and doesn't care about that stuff. So I think that's what it is. And when you talk to people, like imagine with all of the telecommunication stuff we have now between phones and computers and everything else, people don't do face-to-face. It's very hard to find people that like look you in the eye, make you know, genuine gestures, gestures while you're talking, aren't looking around the room, looking at everything else besides you. I think it's hard to find those people. So when you're sitting down and talking to someone and you're doing that, that probably feels very like a like an old school world, you know, real connection that they haven't had in a long time. I can shoot people an email or a text message. I don't have to call people. And sometimes, like I was driving for a couple hours today and I called two old friends just because in my mind I thought, well, this is free time I have. And I even though we text, I would still like to talk. So it's a way to like knock two birds out with one stone, and and it feels good. And I get off the phone and like, oh, it's a good conversation, you know? And I think we just miss that too much. Yes, I agree. We're all working from home, we're all doing stuff, you know, like people aren't communicating anymore. I miss being in the office and walking around and doing stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

So and that brings me to the retreat that I planned that you are a guest speaker at. And because of a lot of things that I'm saying, that it's for connection and authentic conversation and connection. And it's funny when I'm posting that out because it's a shame that people don't have that kind of connection just on a daily basis, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah, I've been to two women's retreats in the last year. One in Illinois from a good friend and old co worker of mine, Kim Rabbit. And that one was amazing for me because I was amongst other women who are similar age, and we all struggle with. Relative to the same things when it comes right down to it. And another one uh by a friend of mine in Wisconsin, Nikki Schneider, and it was about you know, kind of focused up stuff on menopause, and you'd be surprised how many women don't realize like the symptoms and the things that they can do to sort of strategies they can do to get around a lot of the symptomology of it. And at both times I left and was like, ugh, that feels refreshing. Like I got like a boost of just energy from other people, and I think everybody felt left feeling great. And I don't know anyone that had a bad time, right? And so in the beginning, you're like looking at it like, oh, should I spend the money? And then at the end, I was like, why don't I spend the money on me? Because I spend the money on everybody else. My money sure does take care of everybody else. So I should be able to take care of myself sometimes. And it does give you that genuine connection because when you'd be surprised, what happens when you remove society from people for three days, four days, two days, whatever the retreat is, and you just talk. There's no TVs, there's no nothing, and you just kind of do things that take care of you, how much it works. You know, and moms, as moms, we all and wives, we all tell everybody how to take care of themselves and we all take that time out for them. So, you know, I think it's important for people to see that, and they might not even know what you're talking about because it's been so long since they had it. But once you go, you leave, and you're like, I can't believe I don't do this more often.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yes, you know, and that's why I call it return to yourself, because I feel that way that there's so many roles that we play as moms and women and business owners and all of that, that we don't often return to ourselves and figure out who are we and where are we and what are we doing and what are our real roles and likes and you forget what you actually like.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

And my friend Nikki in Wisconsin afterwards, she posted about it. There was probably, I want to say there was maybe 30 people there. She posted about it, and probably like 50 more women on social media said next time, include me. Because people need it and want it. And if they know what they're missing, then they want it more, you know. So I think I think there's just a need for taking a break as a f as a female from general day-to-day doing and hang out and talk.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

And in a safe place too, where you know that there's gonna be absolutely a lot of people that are similar to you.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

It's just very authentic and genuine. It's really nice to see someone you've never met say, like, I'm really sorry that that is something you went through, and I went through something similar. And there's just a bonding in the camaraderie of everybody having similarities, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah. And there's validation in that your feelings are also others' feelings as well. I saw online, and this was uh something I thought was interesting, there was some place online that was getting women, I don't know, it was a some kind of class or something you could go through to start having women's girls' nights in houses.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

So when I got really sick about four years ago, I had friends and family. I had a family members staying with me for like a month, and I had my daughter was there, and a couple of my friends, one of my daughter's friends. We did that every Wednesday. And somebody would make dinner. Um they came to my house because I was the one that was sick, but they would come over and we would watch, we picked a show at the time. I think it was like what is the one that whatever the sh the cowboy show is the cowboy. Oh, the Yellowstone? Yes. We picked Yellowstone, and every week we would l stream like a few of the shows in a row to for it to be like a couple hours long, and we would just eat food and sit there and talk, and then we would talk about oh my gosh, the next one that's coming out, you know. And it was actually four years later, it's the one thing I missed the most. I was it was so fun. And even when everybody was at their house, we could like FaceTime and do it, you know. So my Aunt Lori was monumental in that healing part for me. And we would just eat and watch the sh the show together. And I have an uh another client who watches her and her friends get together and they watch dancing with the stars. It doesn't matter what it is, I think it's just a safe space to like do what you do your thing. Yes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

I just thought it was strange that someone posted online about a a class that you could take to like facilitate these classes gotten. I know, that's what I'm saying. Like, I there has to be like a facilitator that people don't know how to even get together as women and and get into these can I know, I know. Well, well, thank you for coming on my podcast episode today. I am so excited to have you as the guest speaker at the retreat. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to I'll be talking to you again soon here. Okay. All right. Thank you. Uh-huh. Bye. I really loved this conversation because I think it brought us back to something so simple, but something we're probably all missing more than we realize. Real connection. Not just being in contact with people, texting all day, seeing what everyone is doing online, actually being with people, talking, listening, looking someone in the eye, having conversations that go a little deeper than how are you? And I'm fine. And I think that's part of what I keep coming back to with Return to Yourself, too. Yes, the retreat is about reconnecting with yourself, but it's also about creating space for authentic connection with other women. Because sometimes we don't even realize how much we've been missing that until we experience it again. Dr. Elise, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your perspective with us. I'm also so excited to have you joining us as a guest speaker at Return to Yourself. If you want to learn more about the retreat, I'll have all the details linked in the episode description. Thanks for hanging out with me today. If you enjoyed this conversation, I'd love to hear from you. Send me a message, leave a review, or share this episode with someone who might need it. And before I go, when was the last time you felt truly connected to someone? Not just in touch with them, but really connected. Until next time, keep asking good questions, keep being curious, and most importantly, keep showing up as yourself. This is Unfiltered with Love. I'm your host, Carrie Love, and I'll see you next week.